More than Pork.

[Tracy]

I am interested to know what the Dietary Laws mean to others here? Does it just mean you don't eat pork and seafood? Or more?
My husband and I have felt convicted for about 4 years now to put away eating pork. We only eat it if it is put before us. It can be difficult trying to explain it if it comes up with others as there is Peter's vision in Acts 10 which leaves a lot of questions for others. There is also the lawlessness which fills the church today, which I generally find leaves people uncomfortable with absolutes.
I look forward to hearing input from others.
Blessings,
Tracy

[Tracey Absolon]

If this mission group were Christian that went in teaching that all food is clean now by the blood of Jesus Christ, then they really didn't have any choice BUT to eat the meal.
If the mission group had been teaching Torah observance, then of necessity that would have included the food laws, then the Chinese family would have know not to serve the meat and they would have been spared the cost of the meal.

Quote from Mary (Remember, our right standing with G-d is not based on our keeping the law but on Yeshua's sacrifice.)

Deut 6:25 It will be righteousness for us if we are careful to obey all these mitzvot before Adonai our God, just as He ordered us to do.


Quote from Mary (We obey his commandments out of love for him.)

So if I don't keep His commandments as He asked, in this case being the food laws, to please others, doesn;t this mean that I don't love Him?

Just my thoughts.

[Mary]

I don't know if you have been on a short term mission trip but the focus of the trip is the gospel and salvation by faith. There is not time to teach food laws, etc. They certainly didn't have time to preach that all foods are clean. It just doesn't come up when your goal is to introduce someone to Christ. True, this group was not Torah observant, but the story still holds in that they ate something that they would have preferred not to do as to not hurt the feelings of a family that was trying to show their thanks.

1Co 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

Even though Paul was Torah observant, his focus was on the salvation of the lost.

Tracy noted:

Deut 6:25 It will be righteousness for us if we are careful to obey all these mitzvot before Adonai our God, just as He ordered us to do.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Even when we receive the revelation that Torah is for today and there are blessings in obedience we must still remember that salvation is a free gift. None of us can keep the law good enough to be acceptable without Yeshua's sacrifice.

Shalom,

Mary

[Lori Lee]

I would say that keeping Torah is not for salvation, it never was. Salvation has always been through faith alone, before Yeshua it was faith in Messiah to come, after Yeshua it is faith in Messiah already come and coming again. Torah was simply Yahweh's instructions to His people on how to live a life that is pleasing to Him. It is about obedience, not salvation. Salvation through faith first, then relationship through obedience next.

Lori

[Robin Sampson]

All things in love is the most important. It is also important to point out that good intentioned people can pull out a few verses to justify eating pork just as they pull out a few verses to say woman can't wear pants or jewelry. The Bible must be studied as a while hermetically.

"If some unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions of conscience."

This passage is about food. Pork and shell fish aren't food just as rats are not food.

Its about relationship not about rules. Much of what we do or don't do against God is not intentional but is a simple misunderstanding of Scripture (we were simply taught wrong). PRAISE GOD, the veil is being removed!.

Tracy, thanks for the reminder--"Great Blessings come with obedience to the Lord's ways but Lord brings each of us to His revelation in His time."

[Tracey Absolon]

I am guessing that this reply Robin is to me (TracEy) and not Tracy who wrote the first question?
If it is, then yes, in my usual round about way, I was trying to show how we can take one piece of scripture out of context to the whole chapter, and make it say what we want, especially when the very next verse clarified the position and specified that is was meat offered for sacrifice. The church as a whole has made a career out of taking one verse out of context, and even though the sentiment in that proof text is not found anywhere else in the bible, it can and does effect a complete reversal in people ideas.

Yes you are also right in that love is most important, and I apologise if that didn't come across in what I wrote. This can be a very "hard" medium without being able to see ones face of hear their voice.

If what I wrote strikes one's heart then there were ready to "hear", if not, then maybe a seed has been sewn, and down the track it will start to germinate, who knows, only the Lord.
Shalom
Tracey

[Stephanie]

Tracey - This reminds me of something that an old pastor of ours used to say when we worked in Children's Ministry... It is important to know that with many people you will only plant seeds and not see it grow. You never know when that shoot will start to show. It's really something that puts our actions in perspective. You never know when you are affecting someone, and no matter how small that effect is it may grow into something monumental within them later on. And if not, remember all the sayings about good things coming in small packages. :) I think this is applicable with all sorts of things!

[Tracey Absolon]

Oh boy, you can tell I sew can't you.
I must remember that we sow seeds, we don't sew seeds.
My bad,
Tracey

[Robin Sampson]

I haven't eaten pork or shellfish for over a dozen years. I won't cook either. I try not to speak of it as it makes several of my family members angry (go figure). I have a growing concern how animals are killed. I'm looking into it.

We attend a Baptist church in TN. They serve pork at every meal function we have been to. I don't say anything, I just avoid eating it.

I love turkey ham and turkey bacon so I changed over any ham recipes to these alternatives.

I think of pigs as large rats and shrimp as roaches. No problem avoiding them.

Great discussion. Thanks.
Robin

[Stephanie]

I love your rats and roaches visual aid! I'm going to use that one with my kid. :) My husband and I have been studying this heavily for the last few weeks, and we've decided to do the same thing. I have been led that way for quite a while, but now that he's been led there on his own it's something that I can say "my family" keeps. My daughter understands and isn't balking at the change, but she is having a hard time seeing it as something that isn't good to eat now when it was for so long (especially bacon on her turkey sandwiches!) We've been using turkey bacon the last few weeks if needed for something, and praise God she's got a strong faith of her own so she desires to be pleasing to Him. But, that rat/roach picture will pack a lot of bang for the buck!

[Mary]

I am probably opening up a big can of worms here (obviously not kosher, lol.) My question is, why use turkey ham and bacon? Since they are intended to look and taste like the real thing, isn't that a way to have unkosher meats while still technically keeping kosher? Wouldn't anyone who saw something made with them believe that it was pork? I'm just asking. I haven't really sought the Lord on this. It just seems to me that if we use those substitutes then we haven't really given up the desire for the taste of the unclean.
We are to stay away from the appearance of evil so wouldn't using these products make it LOOK like we are using pork. As I said, I don't have a word from the Lord on this so I am looking forward to any insights members may have on this.

Mary

[Jody]

Shalom Mary, Well, I can only say from my personal experience that ham and bacon are a way of preparing the meat. Not necessarily where the meat comes from. Ham and bacon are both smoked. The bacon comes from the brisket of an animal. We smoke the lamb and goat that we butcher to produce our own "bacon". We also use beef brisket that has been smoked. Is this really bacon? Or is it simply smoked brisket cut into strips then fried or broiled. I don't know. I do use turkey ham sometimes when I am making eggs benedict. Also we make salami from beef, or venison. Is it still salami? I do understand what you are talking about though. It is like the adventist friends of mine who buy "fake" meat. Vegetable protein made to look, smell and taste like meat. Why? However, in my opinion, the smoked beef, lamb or goat "bacon" does not smell or taste anything like "real bacon". And I never use turkey bacon so I cannot comment on that. I will look forward to someone else's point of view on this.

[Tracey Absolon]

Shalom Mary. I tend to agree with Jody. Just because we smoke or brine one particular meat more than others, should not mean that that particular process can not be used for other types of meat.
Just because the most accepted sausage is pork, should not mean that sausages can only be pork, does it? I am hoping to make some turkey sausages soon. Not sure how it will go, but I can only try, can't I, and I know that they aren't going to taste like pork sausages either, but I am not wanting them too.
In reality, nothing tastes, smells and looks like pork bacon. Turkey bacon looks, tastes and smells nothing like pork bacon, simply because it is turkey not pork. It is not the the taste that we are replicating, but the process.
Just my thoughts.
Tracey