More than Pork.

[Tracy]

I am interested to know what the Dietary Laws mean to others here? Does it just mean you don't eat pork and seafood? Or more?
My husband and I have felt convicted for about 4 years now to put away eating pork. We only eat it if it is put before us. It can be difficult trying to explain it if it comes up with others as there is Peter's vision in Acts 10 which leaves a lot of questions for others. There is also the lawlessness which fills the church today, which I generally find leaves people uncomfortable with absolutes.
I look forward to hearing input from others.
Blessings,
Tracy

[Lori Lee]

They make beef bacon here, Tracey. It has much more of the salty, smoky flavor that you find in pork bacon. It is something I have very infrequently because I shouldn't have the salt or the extra fat either. Now that I think about it, would the fat make it unclean?

Lori

[Tracey Absolon]

Beef bacon! now that sounds interesting.
Ok here's the deal. When I come over for that ever famous visit, you cook up some beef bacon, and I'll cook the anadama bread. lol

I agree about the salt not being good for us, but I am not sure that the fat makes it unclean, just that we are not supposed to eat the fat. So lets either cut it off, or cook it off.

Tracey

[Lori Lee]

Good point, the fat does mostly cook off. I hadn't thought of that. Ah, I can still enjoy my treat every once in a while then :-) That sounds like a great deal, now to get you all here....

Lori

[Lynna]

A couple of years ago my DH and I bought the book The Makers Diet. It has some good info on pigs and pork along with fish with no gills. We just don't eat pork anymore and it helps us medically which is what I tell people, they seem to understand that better. My dh has fibermialgia (sp) and I have IBS. We went for two weeks (in the beginning of this journey) without eating any pork and he felt great and I wasn't in the bathroom at all. To make the experiment complete, we both had sausage for breakfast and by the end of the day my dh was in bed in pain and three hours later I was rushing to the restroom again. Since then we have found that there are many healthier options to pork chops and such like the turkey sausage and bacon. We eat a lot more chicken now. We have been at someone's house and they had pork chops for dinner and we ate a small portion as not to be rude but most of our friends and family know that we do not eat pork anymore.
I really enjoyed this thread, thanks for all the wonderful information.
God Bless
Lynna

[Jody]

Shalom, You know, reading all the replies back and forth, I believe everything I would have said, has already. I agree whole-heartedly with Robin, about these things simply not being food. Also, the point about dedicated to idols made by others. What really stumps me in all this is the assumption that if one refuses a ham sandwich put in front of them, they will affend. WHY? Do you not have any love or tact? I have followed the dietary instructions for many years 20-25. I have never offended someone in explaining why I do not eat certain foods. On the contrary, I have had many opportunities to witness to others of the Creator's love and instructions for us through His Torah. Never has there not been something else offered or available. Even if it comes down to eating bread sticks, or bread and butter. And if you eat it with love and thanksgiving in fellowship......
There is much more to the Kashrut than just not eating certain things, but that is a way down the path. Since we do not have any kosher restaurants or butcher shops in our area, it limits our eating out. I do not usually buy meats anyway since we raise our own.
Another small point, there are no provisions in Torah, no specific punishments for NOT eating kosher,,,, You are the one who suffers by polluting your temple. Which leads to disease and separation from the Creator.

[Celia]

I know that each situation is different and we should be led by the Spirit in conversations, but could you (or anyone else) give a general idea of what you say. Do you just say I don't eat pork (or whatever the case may be) and leave it at that and wait for them to ask, or what do you say and how much? And maybe some typical responses you have gotten and how you may answer back (if at all). Thanks, Celia

[Tracey Absolon]

Personally it depends on the company. If they are unbelievers we probably would just say that we don't eat pork and talk about the poision and health issues. Depending on how that when we may get into the faith side of things.
If they have faith, then we probably would say that we follow the food laws, to which alot haven't got a clue what your talking about, and other will tell you that they are now "free in Christ" and "don't we know that Christ's blood has cleansed all" etc etc. Depending on how that went would determine how much further we went in explaining things.
Each situation is different, and people reactions are different, so you never know what is going to happen. But the statements are never said to deliberately cause trouble of offend people.
That probably didn't answer your question at all.
Tracey

[Robin Sampson]

>>>>What really stumps me in all this is the assumption that if one refuses a ham sandwich put in front of them, they will offend. WHY? Do you not have any love or tact?<<<<br />

Some people think you think you are somehow better if you do something different. It isn't automatically the fault of the person convicted to keep the dietary laws.

Years ago, when my adult children were impressionable teenagers, someone in our family made fun of my Hebrew roots studies OFTEN and said "You are not Jewish." My children heard this weekly. This planted a seed of rebellion.

The result is some of my adult children in Baptist churches with Baptist backgrounds resent anything Hebraic even what I won't eat. They attend churches that teach anyone Torah observant is legalistic. They believe I am wrong under false teaching. I can't begin to tell you how painful it is.

Are you in the south? or in a Jewish area? I have never talked to anyone that keeps the dietary laws that hasn't had some kind of resistance from friends or family.

Blessings,
Robin

[Jody]

Shalom Robin, Au contrare! I didn't say I never had any kind of resistance, I simply said your response need not be offensive.
I had a mother who was VERY christian and very "free". She resisted at first, and until her dying day she was never convinced otherwise. But over the years, she accepted that this was the way it was with me. Although I am of Jewish heritage, I was not raised as such. My entire family is christian mainstream, even in ministry. But I broke away from that early on.
My dh and I have come down this path together, and it has not always been EZ. We have however, sacrificed many things to remain this way. We also live a very separist lifestyle. But are in no way unsociable.
It is simply a case of being the Almighty's people and keeping ourselves in the world but NOT of the world. Our calendar's different (keeping the Festivals instead of the world's) Our appearance is different,(tzit-tzit, beard, kippah etc) and it goes along that our behaivior is different (eating kosher, keeping niddah etc). You either make those choices or you don't. Each person must choose, we are not all called to the same purpose, and we are not all at the same place on the path.
The area I am in is neither in the south nor is it a Jewish area. There are however, a few Jews, and some messianics in our area. We don't all agree (very rarely) lol. (2 Jews, 3 opinions) lol. But, we often fellowship together. (there will be christians, Jews and messianics all coming to our home for Pesach celebration)
I hope this is encouraging to those who read this.

[Mary]

You know, I think the key thing is how we deal with believers vs. unbelievers. Unfortunately, many believers are the worst if you refuse ham etc. I try really hard not to mention dietary laws when refusing food, however, if questioned, I won't lie and often believers are the ones who are offended and accuse you of "legalism". My comment about causing offense was in relation to a foreign land where people were new believers and were trying to be hospitable in the only way they knew how. I believe my Creator is able to protect my body in such a case to avoid wounding a new believer. My in-laws who are not believers would not understand. Our heart's desire is that they be saved. So, do I take the opportunity to point out to them a difference between us that further widens the gulf or do I count on grace to protect me? And if you think at their house you will be able to refuse the food without an explanation you can forget it. Everyone has to make those decisions for themselves.

An example not related to food: We went to LA to visit my in-laws and my husband and I went on a motorcycle ride with his dad. He pulled into a gas station and said, "Come on, I want to show you the Hindu Temple, it's really cool....but you'll have to take off your shoes to go in." and then rode off. My husband and I had just had a discussion that morning about the story of Naaman who, after being healed of leprosy, went back and claimed Israel's G-d as his own. He asked that the Lord would not be offended when he back to his own country and had to accompany his leader into an idol's temple. He was told to go in peace. My husband and I were on the same bike so I leaned and said, "remember what we talked about this morning, this is why we read that this morning." My husband is bull-headed and didn't listen. He didn't want to go in and he certainly didn't want to honor their idols by taking off his shoes. My view was that it was nothing but a pretty building and idols made with men's hands. I did pray for protection from demonic influence while we were there. That to say, it did great harm to my FIL's view of our faith. He has mentioned it again several times many years later (15 years) that he just didn't understand that. So, we set up a wall to his salvation. My prayer now is that G-d will send someone else to minister to them and I still pray for their salvation. It grieves me that we were a stumbling block to him.

It has been a blessing that my husband developed gout last year. We went into the doctor and he started naming off things he couldn't eat, most of them pork products, and shellfish! Unfortunately, people are much more understanding about a documented health issue than they are about scriptural obedience..

Shalom,

Mary

[Jody]

Mary, I do not, personally, believe that your husband "set up a wall to his salvation" Only time will tell the whole story. Just because your FIL doesn't understand your husbands choice, doesn't mean it was a wall. It sounds as if your FIL is very close minded, and perhaps in the long run, your husbands stand on what he was comfortable with and what he believes will speak truth to the FIL louder than words. It is sad that most people will make changes due to health and scientific reasons, but will not choose to please YHVH simply for the sake of obedience to His Word. That is equal to putting more weight on the word of man rather than the Word of our Creator.

[Jody]

Shalom, Interesting.... I see that Lori Lee and Tracey responded to my post about the beef, and lamb bacon etc. But I do not see the post. It must have not posted? But then how did they respond? Interesting. Anyway, the bacon (smoked cured meat) does not need to be too salty. It depends upon how it is processed. There is a local butcher shop here and their beef bacon is real popular. Theirs is very sweet. Processed with maple syrup. For a diabetic as myself, it is too sweet for me. But salting the meat is part of the process in making bacon or ham of any meat source.
On another vein of this topic. The "fat" described in Torah is in reference to the sacrifices. Yes, it has to do with the way the meat is slaughtered and butchered. It is not referring to a little fat which is ingrained within the meat, and it is not a little fat which may be on meat. But we too trim the meat of any fat. But my point here is that, if you have ever butchered an animal you are aware of the fat that is in the body cavity, which lies along the vital organs. This is the fat being spoken of in Scripture. Also there is the blood issue. I know that many observant jews "kasher" the meat by soaking in salt water to remove all the blood. Torah teaches that the "life" is in the blood. We are instructed not to eat the meat with the blood in it. I only know from personal experience, that we too soak the meat in salt water after a proper slaughter, to remove as much blood as possible. We do not however, soak the meat until it is white. Then when we cook it, we cook it throughly to remove any remaining blood.
It is not fat or blood which determines whether a meat is "unclean" as Lori mentioned. There are specific animals which are unlean. Whether they have died of themselves, or have been torn, will render them unfit for our consumption, but they are still either a clean animal or an unclean animal. Do I make any sense?