New Moon Sighting Affects Holiday Observances

[Trish]

Something that is new to me this year is learning about how the observances of some holidays depend on the sighting of the new moon. I am curious to learn more about this because there seem to be staunch supporters from both ends of the spectrum. Also, then, does the observance of Shabbat also depend upon the sighting of the new moon, counting every 7th day from the sighting (meaning it would sometimes fall upon a Tuesday according to the standard calender, or other day of the week)? This whole subject makes my mind swim! I've read up on both opposing POVs to some degree but that is only frustrating me more. Can anyone give me SCRIPTURAL backup for your reasons as to why you celebrate according to the rabbi's dates or according to the actual sighting of the new moon? Thanks!!!!

[Jody]

Shalom, I do agree with Dinah in that the confusion in the Biblical Sabbath keeping most likely is to be found in the understanding and study of what "Rosh Chodesh" means. Firstly Rosh Chodesh is only found once in Scripture and it is referring to the first day of the first month. This is to be the beginning (head) of months for you. That is the only Rosh Chodesh. And further study will show that the term Chodesh is misunderstood when we translate it as "month". It more correctly would be translated as new moon. I know this sounds a bit picky but it stems back to our gentile/roman mindset of "month". YHVH's timing renews with every new moon. Our cycle of time keeping is from new moon to new moon, from Sabbath to Sabbath, as Scripture states.
As far as questioning a couple of the resources used, please remember that the book of Jasher is mentioned twice in Scripture, so who decides whether it is credible or not? I take all the resources for exactly what they are, with the most weight put on Scripture. But to find fault simply because a book is not in the approved canon of Scripture doesn't make sense. Or many of us would not enjoy the reading of the Maccabee's.
I personally find fault in "holy times" for using the Rabbinic method of determining a 13th month, as oppossed to using YHVH's instructions to go according to the barley harvest! So if you are going to look for fault, do it with equal weights and measures.... This topic takes much prayerful study. Blessings to all in their search for the truth. Shalom.

[Trish]

Thanks Jody! So, according to my calendar with Rabbinic dating on it, it says that the New Moon should be on the evening of the 25th of January. Should we be looking for it on the evening of the 26th then, do you think?

[Dinah]

Shalom & Shavuah Tov!

The reason I was questioning the resources used like Jasher ( I always like to check resources to see if it's truth - just me:)) is because according to my search on the book of Jasher IT IS A LOST BOOK - Meaning: IT DOESN'T EXIST ANYMORE!!!
The books that are out there named "Jasher" are NOT the "book of Jasher" mentioned in scripture! I think that's really important to know if your quoting something & saying it's quoted & used in scripture don't you?

Anyway I LOVE books that are not found in the "approved cannon" like Maccabbees & Enoch just for the simple fact that they were jewish written scrolls around in Yeshua's day that were read & known & considered credible by our spiritual forefathers & THEY GIVE US HUGE INSIGHT!!!:)

Just for clarification I am not here talking to all of you to find fault but to search & learn truth with all of you...personally since I'm so new to G-d's time...I'm not even getting what your saying about a 13th month!!!lol, but I suppose G-d will reveal that to me in his time if it be his will:)

Blessings to you all searching & understanding, Dinah

[Trish]

I think the 13th month is similar to adding in a day on a leap year. Whenever the calendar months do not match up with the season, I think an extra month is added in every few years...that's the way I understand it anyway! :-D

[Jody]

Shalom, The soonest we should be looking for the signal of the first sliver would be at sunset tonight. So Trish, if you want to look, then tonight, would be the soonest you could possibly see it. I was at a monthly new moon gathering yesterday, and there was some interesting discussion and study. One thing that was brought into the light was the error with those who count the first work day as day one, and then the Sabbaths would all fall on 7th, 14th etc. The error is that in counting this way, the "renewal" moon days (as they called them) are always the 29-30th of any "month". But in Numbers we are given instructions as to which sacrifices to bring at the beginning of the month, as well as being instructed to blow the shofar. If the first day of the month is a work day, then you are completely ignoring these instructions for the start of the new moon cycles.
As far as the comment about the 13th month. The 13th new moon cycle is there to keep our Biblical calendar in line with YHVH's Feasts. This month is determined by the ripeness of the barley in the land of Isra'el. Obviously since there are specific offerings which are presented at the Feasts, it would be impossible to offer these "first fruits" of the harvest, if the timing were too early....
We are told in Scripture that the time of the Abib barley will be the beginning of "months" for us. So in this we are given directions in Scripture how to determine if we are ready to start a new yearly cycle of new moon cycles. (not by precalculation of X times in X years) So just as at the end of the current new moon cycle we know that we are to watch and look for YHVH's sign in the heavens that the "new" moon "cycle" is to begin, we know that after 12 cycles of the moon, we are to watch YHVH's agricultural signs to see if our new yearly cycle is to begin. It is all based on our willingness to follow His Instructions in Torah as to what His timing is, or whether we will remove Him from the timekeeping and follow man-dating. (as a culture we have been ruled by commerce and convenience and we want to be in control)

[YAHaloma]

So, then, do you look for the moon locally, or do you go by sightings in Israel? I get notices on when the moon has been sighted in here in the US and there in Israel, but am not sure yet which we should be observing. We have been going by sightings in our area (Pacific Coast) for the feasts. I just got notice that the sliver was sighted last night in Israel (Jan. 27th to them), so we can expect to see ours tonight (well, we won't, it's raining). So, if you would, could you walk us through the dates, according to what you believe is the true Shabbat days? I mean, explain what each day is, according to how you observe, so we can get a better grasp on how you observe? I admit, my brain is thoroughly brainwashed with Roman/Greek thinking, especially with the concept of time. Since I've been Torah observant, though, I've noticed I am having a horrible time keeping ANY time straight, and need someone to hold my hand to get me through the transistion of coming out of the Greek mindset in this subject. We've been doing our best, but frankly, it's been like stumbling in the dark, it seems.

The more I read, and study, the more I am convinced a lunar shabbat is probably scriptural. I still need to do more comparisions, to be certian, though. Thank you for all the info, etc.

[Dinah]

Shalom Yahaloma,

Do you have e-sword? If you don't there is a free download at http://www.e-sword.net/bibles.html you can download a few different translations & compare & study & take notes right on your computer...it makes it so easy!!!
May G-d continue to be your Light out of Darkness as he is mine:)

In our Messiah Yeshua,
Dinah

[YAHaloma]

Yes, I do, I depend on it greatly. Thank you for the link. I am still working out how to use it other than doing search. I'm not sure how to use all the notes features, and such yet.

Shalom....

[Dinah]

Shabbat Shalom Jody,

You said "If the first day of the month is a work day, then you are completely ignoring these instructions for the start of the new moon cycles."

From What I've been studying this is what I've found:

Feasts of the 7th Month unique from all others: Num 29

month 7 Day 1-shabbat Yom Terruah - blowing of Shofars-

Lev 23:24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying: In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall be a solemn rest unto you, a memorial proclaimed with the blast of horns, a holy convocation.

What exactly is G-d's instructions for new moon cycles in the Bible? When I read in Numbers the only instruction for the 1st day being a Shabbat is Yom Teruah- which is a HOLY DAY that is specifically commanded to be a Shabbat..if it is every month, why didn't G-d say EVERY MONTH on the 1st day rather then specifically stating it on the 7th month?

I'm still upholding G-d's inspired word as my standard "All scripture is G-d breathed..."

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Therefore by looking at examples in G-d's word for instruction let's look
First of All at Ezra who traveled on the 1st day of the month, he was a PRIEST & VERY TORAH OBSERVANT ...He traveled all the way from Babylon

Ezr 7:9 For upon the first day of the first month began he to go up from Babylon, and on the first day of the fifth month came he to Jerusalem, according to the good hand of his God upon him.
Ezr 7:10 For Ezra had prepared his heart to seek the law of the LORD, and to do it, and to teach in Israel statutes and judgments.

This would have definately been breaking the Shabbat wouldn't you agree?

[Dinah]

I've been doing more of a study on this with e-sword & this is what I came up with...what do you all think?

Important aspects to consider for lunar shabbat timing

1. Notice the WORK involved on day 1 of the months (setting up the WHOLE TABERNACLE, census of all the tribes, & Aaron climbing a mountain Mt. Hor before he died!!)

Exo 40:2 'On the first day of the first month shalt thou rear up the tabernacle of the tent of meeting.
Exo 40:3 And thou shalt put therein the ark of the testimony, and thou shalt screen the ark with the veil...

Num 1:1 And the LORD spoke unto Moses in the wilderness of Sinai, in the tent of meeting, on the first day of the second month, in the second year after the were come out of the land of Egypt, saying:
Num 1:2 'Take ye the sum of all the congregation of the children of Israel...

Num 33:38 And Aaron the priest went up into mount Hor at the commandment of the LORD, and died there, in the fortieth year after the children of Israel were come out of the land of Egypt, in the fifth month, on the first day of the



2. Notice in the 7th month G-d specifically says it would be a shabbat...if it was a shabbat every month why would G-d specifically say this was Shabbat?

Lev 23:24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying: In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall be a solemn rest unto you, a memorial proclaimed with the blast of horns, a holy convocation.

3. Also look at Ezra

Ezr 7:9 For upon the first day of the first month began he to go up from Babylon, and on the first day of the fifth month came he to Jerusalem, according to the good hand of his God upon him.
Ezr 7:10 For Ezra had prepared his heart to seek the law of the LORD, and to do it, and to teach in Israel statutes and judgments.

4.God says 6 days we should labor & do all our work but the 7th is a day of rest Shabbat...if you celebrate Shabbat on the 8th day of month then it's no longer the 7th day .

Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

[YAHaloma]

I am not sure what you guys are arguing against? The lunar shabbos idea, or just that the first day can't be a shabbat because of the work that clearing the Hebrews did on the first days of all months but the 7th? Or are you trying to show support for lunar shabbos?

It seems to me, if the first day was NEVER to be shabbos, other than for certain the 7th month, then we'd HAVE to go by the moon, since the months are obviously determined by the moon. If the first day fell on Friday night, and we were F/S shabbos keepers, the first day would HAVE to be shabbos in that instance, and we couldn't do work, though the Hebrews were commanded to.

Though I don't quite understand yet, I thought it was said that the first day ISN'T shabbos, but it isn't a day to do just any work, either. Oy, I need to go look over the posts again, lol

[Shalom2Uall]

Shalom Dinah & all,

Good points Dinah, U made, Thank U for these Scriputures, references, examples. The first day of the month can't be a Sabbath. (it is a work day) thank U for these Scripures again.

except for the 7th month.

The extra time off from work that would be considered a Sabbath or New moon festival, worship day onto Yahweh, is that extra day when U CANT see the moon. Some months are 29 days & some months are 30 days, so when U see the cresent moon again, the Sabbath is over, and the first day of of the month begins (via 1st work-day) putting the Sabbath on the 7th, 14th, 21st, 28th except for the special commandment given for the Israelites for the 7th month to observe the Feast of Trumpets. Where else in the Bible does it say to observe the first day as a Sabbath except for the 7th month?

All these Scriptural references and evidence examples that Dinah gave, clearly demonstrates that the people of Israel were working or traveling on the first day of the month.

29th day or 30day is when U have the extra time off from work to rest and worship Yahweh at the end of the 4th Sabbath each month, during the darkness of the moon.

Thank U Dinah for this evidence, that gives us all something to consider.


Blessing to all, BTW, I heard the moon has been spotted in Israel (Tuesday night) time for work again

Rebecca