New Moon Sighting Affects Holiday Observances

[Trish]

Something that is new to me this year is learning about how the observances of some holidays depend on the sighting of the new moon. I am curious to learn more about this because there seem to be staunch supporters from both ends of the spectrum. Also, then, does the observance of Shabbat also depend upon the sighting of the new moon, counting every 7th day from the sighting (meaning it would sometimes fall upon a Tuesday according to the standard calender, or other day of the week)? This whole subject makes my mind swim! I've read up on both opposing POVs to some degree but that is only frustrating me more. Can anyone give me SCRIPTURAL backup for your reasons as to why you celebrate according to the rabbi's dates or according to the actual sighting of the new moon? Thanks!!!!

[Mary]

I probably overreacted as I have found many who espouse the view to be very harsh toward those who don't.

The Bible says that we see through a glass darkly and it is true. I checked out the article on the lunar sabbath and I just didn't see it. The scripture said they arrived on the 15th which according to the writer's understanding was a Shabbat. Why were they traveling on a Sabbath? I can look at Moshe's instructions as a general instruction to how the manna will be given just as easily as it can be taken that he said on one Shabbat that you will get this for the next six days. Make sure you collect more on the sixth day because you won't get any next Shabbat.

I guess I am just trying to learn to walk Torah and I see some discussions like these very easily having the effect of "laying on people's backs burdens grievous to be born" as the Pharisees did. Yeshua said to take his yoke upon us and learn from him for his yoke is easy and his burden is light. I will readily change my way of thinking on the Shabbat when I fell like YHVH is telling me that. That is just not where YHVH has me focusing. Right now, I see confusion in it. I also believe that when it is time for me to change, he will change my circumstances to allow me to do it.

I really did not mean to imply that you were sowing discord and I am sorry if it came across that way.

Shalom
Mary in WY

[Trish]

Okay, I understand where you're coming from now. I agree that we should follow where we are being convicted. You weren't trying to judge, but to encourage :-D Gotcha. And so thank you for that!

I do agree with Mary's comment below as well. There is a lot of confusion about this topic and that is why I've been trying to research it and find a firm footing about it. Sometimes these things take years to work themselves out amongst the larger community for us all to come to a consesus. In the meantime, it is probably a good idea to have a lot of dialogue about it to share information, and each person must follow where they're led and where they're able. And we do know that if we people cannot work this out amongst ourselves in the meantime, Messiah will set us all straight when He returns...Whoo hoo!

[Dinah]

Shalom Jody,

I use timothy as my guide to study to show myself approved a workman who needs not be ashamed & correctly handles the word of truth...2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

I myself am trying to understand why there is a difference between those who keep lunar shabbat on the 7th day of the month & those who start on the 8th...it seems to me it is linked to the understanding of what is the "Rosh Kodesh" ( which I would encourage anyone to do a deeper study on) & what is the reckoning of a "day" & "shabbat" & a "Shevuah Week" - when you study it the Ruach may enlighten you in ways you would not have imagined:) I think this understanding is critical please read & let me know what you think after your reading & study ("holy Time" Chapt. 4)

As I was looking at the above article you posted I've come up with 2 concerns This author uses a few sources to support his view of lunar shabbat that are QUESTIONABLE:


1. ..."From our understanding of the true Shabbats by the great lights, we knew the possibility of not marching on the Qadosh Shabbat was there because of the New moon day or days but the Book of Jasher pinpoints that the march began on the 1st day of the month which confirmed our suspicions. "

he used the book of Jasher, which is a lost jewish book...not sure which of the jasher books out there he used but those out there in circulation are not the biblical book of Jasher that he says he got his reference from see this info on it...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasher


2. ..."One example is found in The Talmud the Steinsaltz Edition", Volume XIV Tractate Ta'anit Part II (1995 by Israel Institute for Talmudic Publications and Milta Books), pages 205-206. It says the following regarding the destruction of the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem-built by Solomon, and destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar's army: Page 205: "Then late on the day of the ninth, close to nightfall, they set the Temple on fire, and it continued to burn the entire next day, on the tenth." Page 206: "When the Temple was destroyed for the first time at the hands of Nebuzaradan [captain of the guard], that day was the ninth of Av, and it was the day following Shabbat, and it was the year following the Sabbatical Year.... And similarly when the Temple was destroyed a second time at the hands of Titus, the destruction occurred on the very same day, on the ninth of Av."}

his using the Babylonian Talmud ( his souce comes from 300 years after Yeshua!!!) as a proof of Lunar Shabbat on the 8th day...After understanding how the rabinical calendar we use today is incorrect & how we are trying to come out of Babylon...this resource may not be a very accurate source of TRUTH!!!
Please see Rebecca's links to Eliyahu's book "Holy Time" It makes much more sense & it lines up with G-d's word & he uses credible references for his historical backup...in my study of his teachings I have not found any falsehood or inaccurate resources:)

I will continue reading your article though...

May the L-rd continue to enlighten our hearts & minds to his truth so that we may truely be enlightened to know him...Yeshua said that we would know the truth & the truth would set us free!!!!( Joh 8:32) Amen - may we all be set free of the bondage of Babylon....! His Word Is Truth - HE is truth- & HE is our Standard!!!

[Jody]

Shalom, All of your comments are appreciated, and you bring up great points. I must admit, I do not agree with Rebecca and her timing.What she said is correct, in the relationship to the moon being in its renewal, and then when the first sliver is sighted, it is the herald to beginning the work days. But I disagree with her timing of the days. The New moon day is prior to the first sliver, and sometimes does extend over a two day period. (this happens about every third month) But the count begins with the New moon day, and the first work day is always the second day of the new lunar cycle. We have many Scriptural proofs given for this. (72) Whenever a Sabbath day date is given in Scripture it is always the 8th-15th-22nd-or 29th day of that moon cycle. So counting the other way would mean all the examples of Sabbath dates given in Scripture would be incorrect according to her way of counting. I am not saying this to "pick" on anyone, just giving the Scriptural backing for proof texts. And yes, the example of Yericho is an example that travel is not prohibited on the first day of the lunar cycle. As is the example of Ezra and others.
As far as the difficulties, it is a matter of choice. I work two jobs, both of which must be scheduled and "juggled" for my Sabbath days. It is a committment I make and is by no means easy. I have made many sacrifices in my jobs, income and lifestyle in order to be obedient. Each person is responsible for the light given them, and what they do with it. We are all going to be judged by the Righteous judge and He alone knows our reasons and abilities. But I will say there are many out there in the world who are doing this. Yes, many are retired or on fixed incomes, many more have become self-employed in order to be obedient. Study the information prayerfully, and blessings to all of you in your walks.

[Shalom2Uall]

the Scripture refe & evidence of Ezra is that he did travel on the first day of the month not the 2nd day of the lunar cylce. please read it, Dinah quoted the Scripture ref in her comments. So how does one reconcile the Sabbath being on the 8th 15th knowing that Ezra was a priest that was obedient to the Torah

The extra time in between the Sabbath & until the moon reapears again in the sky is the worship days.

There are Scripture references and examples and U must take the account of Ezra in your understanding when U read the other Scriptures

Again if U hadn't read, "Holy Time" by Eliyahu Ben David, then I recommended it for those whose are interested in the Lunar Sabbath.

If Ezra traveled on the first day of the month, then the first day which is when the moon reappears must be a first work day. making Shabbat on the day 7 except for month 7 with the Feast Of Trumpets"

But Trish had a good point, This is what was shown to me when I asked Yahweh for the truth, All U need to do, is what U are convicted to do and what Yahweh has shown U. It will all be revealed to us soon. Just seek His face on this matter.

Rebecca

[Shalom2Uall]

One more thing, I want to say that even though we are at different places in our understandings, convictions, or able or unable to do, I really appreciate you folks, the fact that U are willing to even discuss this matter means that U are all open. This subject would most likely turn most people off even those that are seeking to keep the Torah. I am glad, even though we are at different places with our understanding and beliefs, that we can all dicuss this openly and be gracious to one another.

I am looking for work right now, and I want to keep the lunar Sabbath, It is a big challenge right now trying to explain this to employers. So whether U aggree or disagree with the lunar Sabbath or what day the lunar Sabbath falls on, I do ask U please keep me in prayer. I can't go back to keeping Satudays as the Sabbath knowing what has been revealed to me, unless the Sabbath falls on a Saturday for that month, I am stilling attendings services at messianic congregations on Saturdays.
Well, what am I supposed to do for attending services?

I am going to post two links here one is "Holy Time" and the other article is how the Sabbath went from lunar to Saturdays, the story of the Jewish rest day(I hope this works so U can read it) http://www.hope-of-israel.org/sabtosat.htm
this is the article of how the Sabbath went from lunar to Saturdays
Also I will be posting my testimony soon about my discovery of lunar Sabbath and I will quote other references I researched that support lunar Sabbath.


For those of U who want to keep lunar Sabbath and is unable, I will pray for U too.

But I hope we can still enjoy each others fellowship even if we differ in our beliefs and understandings.

Shalom2Uall
Rebecca

[YAHaloma]

I have a question pertaining to the Lunar Shabbos and the parasha. Do you guys use the Parasha as a guide for your studies, and if so, how is it timed so that you are all studying the same thing at the same time? I struggle to keep us on track each week, though I REALLY would like to have such structure in our study time, on top of any topical studies that might come up. I almost NEED that kind of structure, so even though it is man devised, I've found the Parasha to be a good tool for me.

[Shalom2Uall]

Rebecca's Testimony, My discovery & acceptance of lunar Sabbath

It all started when I was trying to share the revelation series from Tsiyon to some folks that fellowship at Inspiredfaith.org(Messianic radio program-online) during Boker Ohr, a program where Paul director of Inspiredfaith is on live for 2 hours discussing, Biblical topics, keeping Torah, Hebrew roots of our faith and important topics on todays issue, answering questions that people may have. The people in the chatroom on Inspiredfaith and on instant messenger come together for fellowship with one another and with Paul. The people chat while they can hear Paul live. U type something whether a question or comment, and U can hear Paul response to your comments and questions while others type in their responses.

Anyways, The wknd before, the Feast of Trumpets, I was trying to share things I heard from Tsiyon & the revelation series with a sister in the inspiredfaith chatroom who visited Tsiyon a couple of times, (needless to say) she wasn't very open to Tsiyon's messages. She had reservations, and pointed out to me that Tsiyon teaches Lunar Sabbath and emailed me the link to the post that was on the community forumn at Tsiyon. When she first told me about it, that late Saturday night, I got very upset and I started to defend Tsiyon, and I said that Tsiyon doesn't teach Lunar Sabbath, (In mind, I was thinking, they couldn't) b/c when I hear their programs, I know from deep within my soul, they are teaching truth.

So I went to their link, and read the post about lunar Sabbath on Tsiyon.
When I read the post, Something deep within my soul and very strong inside of me was stirring up a lot of emotions and excitement. I knew I couldn't ignore this topic, I knew that I had to find out the truth, When I read this post, I knew I was reading truth or atleast I strongly sensed it was truth. but there was a problem. I had so many questions, with lot of confusion, I needed proof and evidence, B/c I had a lot questions

These were my questions:

Does the Bible support lunar sabbath? Where in the Bible is lunar Sabbath supported.
Y was everyone thinking the Sabbath was on Saturday? & how come Sabbath was associated with Saturday? or how did Saturday become the Sabbath?

I think I started out with reading the Book "Holy Time" by Eliyahu Ben David from Tsiyon.org, the book made sense but I still had trouble, confusion , still had lots of questions, I had trouble finding the Scriptures to support the lunar Sabbath, but somehow I still believe it was true concerning lunar Sabbath. I prayed so hard repeatedly for Yahweh to reveal the truth to me about the lunar Sabbath b/c it was important for me to be obedient to Him.

One of the things I prayed was this....."Lord if the lunar Sabbath is true, then I ask that U would put someone else in my life who have also received this revelation or who will receive this revelation about the lunar Sabbath and accept it as truth as well, as confirmation that is lunar Sabbath and not Saturday Sabbath. B/c I couldn't do this alone" (I prayed this prayer a lot) I knew that if I shared this with other folks at my local congregation, that it probably wouldn't be recieved well by most folks, but I did share this with a few folks,(some folks were open to doing the research) but I especially shared with my really good friend "Brownie" who I see regularly b/c she and I have the same mind set, & she also listens to teachings from Tsiyon, which she and I would discuss often. She was open to doing the research on the lunar Sabbath except she wasn't as convinced of it as I was. PLEASE NOTE I made up the name "Browie" b/c she needs to tell her own story and I owe her the privacy.

However, I wasn't completely convinced of lunar Sabbath either, but mostly convinced. I still wasn't connecting the dots yet with the Scriptures and the lunar Sabbath. like I said, I still had these questions......
Y was everyone thinking the Sabbath was on Saturday? and how come Sabbath was associated with Saturday? or how did Saturday become the Sabbath?

I spent endless nights with out sleep, praying for answers, researching for answers, in the Bible, doing word studies from stong's dictionsary and others reading articles, references & encyclopedias, checked out books from the library, from josephsus, also read some from Dead Sea Scrolls

First I needed to be convinced with the Scripture supporting Lunar Sabbath.
I read a lot of verses, I contacted Eliyahu several times with lots of questions, poor guy :), and contacted Dawn as well. The verses that I found from reading "Holy Time" and articles, + the ones Eliyahu and Dawn pointed out to me were very helpful and; after much prayer, my eyes could finally see the Scripture and it's connection to the lunar Sabbath.

Here are the verses that opened my eyes to the connection of lunar Sabbath(that I had read them several times and doing word searches as well) Gen. 1:14, Lev 23-1-5, Dan 7:25, Lam:2.6, Exodus 23:12,13, Ps:81:3, 89:37, 104:19

Exodus 16 explains that Yahweh's was reintroducing the Sabbath to Moses and the Israelites, think about it folks,they just came out of babylon society, they forgot all about the true Sabbath day b/c they were slave and in exile, and part of the egyptain way of living. So when Yahweh delivered them out of slavery and bondage, He reintroduce the Sabbath to them.

This is the word I did for a word search that convinced me of lunar Sabbath (Seasons) found in Gen:14
In Gen 1:14, the word seasons in Hebrew is (Moed), meaning appointed times.
in Lev 23:1-5 it mentions appointed times, the first one being the Sabbath.

Also Sabbath is an appointed time of such of importance, b/c it is mentioned so much all throughtout the Bible, There is also a lot of Scriptures that has the word moon and Sabbath in the same verse. Read Isa 49(how important the sabbath is) Sabbath is a festival/appointed time, Y would the Sabbath be left out of the festivals tied to the moon. Is is logical thinking folks? Yeshua is the Lord of Sabbath(also mentioned in Scripture. Sabbath was made for men), also so the creation could come together and have fellowship with the Creator. It is the 4th commandment, Y are all the other commandments to be kept and not this one? Y folks, what is the reason?

ok, I found Scripture that supports lunar Sabbath, but I still needed to find out why Saturday became the Sabbath. I needed evidence. So I could be completely sure of lunar Sabbath, so I could be a peace with it, so I could be obedient to Yahweh & so I could share this with other folks, I read several articles that argued against the lunar Sabbath, and supported Saturday as the Sabbath, but there was no real evidence of Saturday really being the Sabbath, I couldn't find it in the Scripture, that Saturday was the Sabbath.

Then I came accross this article, this article was the icing that was needed, This articles filled in the blanks & answered my questions. This article is called, "From Sabbath to Saturday, The Story Of The Jewish Rest Story.
http://www.hope-of-israel.org/sabtosat.htm

It explains in great detail the history, how it went from lunar Sabbath to Saturday Sabbath, Starts with creation-all the way up to modern times, with lots of Scripture references & examples and mentions other references that is a witness to lunar Sabbath & affirms the lunar Sabbath as well. This article was very eye opening and explains a lot.

I also learned a lot of information about the pagen calendar that we are all so familiarized with today. The history of our modern day calendar, the history of the jewish calendar that was altered by the rabbis that added a bunch of rules to it, for example, they made sure each yr, that the biblical feast (feast of Trumpets & Yom kipper wouldn't fall on a Friday, Wednesday or Sunday b/c the rabbis knew that friday was a preparation day to get ready for Saturday Sabbath, but if U go by Yahweh's clock, no alternation is needed, it all works out perfectly and in harmony with the phases of the moon. I learned the origins of the days of the wk, how they got named after pagan gods, when it took place, and the order of the days of the wk. This days of the wk Sunday-Saturday wasn't around & wasn't in use or forced opun until a few centuries after Messiah's ressurrection. so therefore, Yeshua & His disciples and many other Jews and gentile believers were keeping Sabbath by the phases of the moon.

I found out, that at one time, Saturday was the first day of the wk, I learned why it got switched to Sunday being the first day of the wk. had to do with worship of the sun god that became more popular. The romans, bishops, Constantine and julian, the pope all messed with the alternation of the calendar. before it was a 7 day wk, it was an 8-11 day wk.

One reason, the Sabbath was changed to a fixed day of the wk(Saturday presently) is b/c of convenience of commerce, businesses. But if Saturday was the first day of the wk at one time, When were the Jews celebrating the Sabbath, Anyone have an answer this question?

Another reason it got switched to Saturday had to do with pagan worship of Saturn, (the god) the day it was named afterwards.

Also b/c it was forced upon all the people living there in that day. By the romans, the leaders in that day, Constantine A lot of hardship fell upon the Jews, They weren't allowed to observe the Torah all all. There was punishment if they tried.
Constantine was so anti-jewish, that he wanted nothing to do with anything jewish, so he declared Sunday as the Sabbath day, that became so accepted by society. There is also a lot more information to how Sunday became the Sabbath as well as Saturday becomming the Sabbath. But I learned a lot about how the days were named and why, & how our wk became at it is, The wkday names are all pagans names associated with pagans gods.

The calendar that was put in place by man was eventually accepted widely by society (at first, the Jews tried to continue keeping lunar Sabbath) but b/c of the hardships and punishments that fell on them b/c of leaders in that day, It just became easier to change the Sabbath it to a fixed day of the wk. An soon after, the pagan calendar & the hardships revamped their whole thinking concept of time reckoning.


Anyways-I still had to do more research, to be absolouty sure, so, I looked up several references that this article mentioned as well as the book "Holy Time" & other articles.

I looked up references such as, Dead Sea Scrolls, Josephus, the Univeral Jewish Encyclopedia, the Jewish Encyclopedia & a bunch of other references, all the references- testified & aggreed, that at one time, it used to be lunar Sabbath. Also the references proved this article & the book "Holy Time" to be true.

Ok, I am totaly convinced now. It is lunar Sabbath,

Think about it folks-now with Saturday being taught as the Sabbath, being passed down from generation to generation.
that it would be hard for anyone to believe otherwise. This is what we are taught, Saturday is the Sabbath, so it must be true, correct? b/c we have a 7 day wk today, this must be how it always was. b/c it has been this way for centuries now.

WRONG folks This calendar that we are using today, is part of this world system, it is part of babylon.
we need to get out of babylon. Yahweh is calling us out of babylon, It is time to wake up. The scripture doesn't mention or support our wkdays/wkdns, no mention of it in Scriptures. Also Yahweh is a Holy God, He doesn't associate Himself with paganism. He wouldn't gives us days of the wk named after pagen gods, besides read the Torah, we are to stay away from pagenism.

So I went back to my good friend Brownie, and another man from my local congregation who was open to doing the research
Brownie & this other man still wasn't convinced yet of lunar Sabbath, but was still open to doing the research on it.
They couldn't see the connection between the moon and the Sabbath but aggree the with the months being lunar and it tied with the biblical festivals, Feast of Trumpets, Sukkot, Passover, etc, but not the Sabbath. At first, Brownie's husband was totaly against the lunar Sabbath as well as with Tsiyon teachings too. Well I was at peace knowing it was lunar Sabbath.
Even though, other weren't there yet. but I was still waiting for that confirmation, remember my prayer folks?

"Lord if the lunar Sabbath is true, then I ask that U would put someone else in my life who have also received this revelation or who will receive this revelation about the lunar Sabbath and accept it as truth as well, as confirmation that is lunar Sabbath and not Saturday Sabbath. B/c I couldn't do this alone" (I prayed this prayer a lot)

Well my prayer was answered & I have my confirmation folks(& I didn't even realize it until just a wk and a half ago-in January)

The wk before thanksgiving, Brownie's husband was open to lunar Sabbath(before he was so closed to it and also to Tsiyon)
well, not for long. not only does he believe it is lunar Sabbath, and is now open to Tsiyon's messages, but a few wks later after thanksgiving, Brownie believe it's lunar Sabbath also. & these folks are part of my lives who I see and fellowship with regularly. He gave me confirmation.

Praise Yahweh. Seek and U shall find, knock and the door will be open. Seek the truth and U shall find the Truth.
I found Yeshua and the true Sabbath day. My testimony keeps on going. I keep on finding more truths,
I have to admit folks, discovering lunar Sabbath was a real shocker and I didn't expect to discover a lunar Sabbath at all.


One of the reasons that compelled me to do this research is b/c of this world system, I knew this system is Yahweh's system, I knew that many teachings have been altered, changed, & so many traditions brought on by men, rabbis, church leader, & so on that aren't Biblical. So when I read Eliyahu's post on this subject, I thought to myself, wow, if man changed so many others things,and decieved the church, & telling folks that the Torah is done away with, then Y not change time & the calendar as well. And this is Y I strongly sensed that lunar Sabbath was true and Y I had such a strong stirring going on inside of me-to do the research. B/c man has messed so many things up, B/c man is disobedient to the Torah.
The world system is babylon.


Remember folks, Yahweh's ways is not our ways, His thoughts are not our thoughts, & His way of time keeping is not our way of time keeping. I want to meet with Him on His Holy time appointments the way He designed it to be. One for obedience & two, I believe we will really experince His presence on the correct day of His appointments.

Thank U for reading this testimony, May Yahweh bless U richly as U seek the truth yourself.

[Trish]

Thank you for sharing that and for sharing some of your research with us!

[Shalom2Uall]

I wanted to repost the testimony b/c I noticed some typing errors, I hope they are all fixed now, but the story is the same.

And my friend gave me permission to use her name.

So Brownie is changed to Dinah.

[Shalom2Uall]

I wanted to repost the testimony b/c I noticed some typing errors again, This time, I think they are all fixed.
and my friend gave me permisstion to user her name, It is Dinah, not Brownie. So I fixed that too.

Hopefully, I won't find anymore typing errors and that this is the last time, I have to repost this.

[YAHaloma]

Rebecca, thank you for this. The last two paragraphs, I could have written myself, mostly. I have had those same, exact thoughts and questions, and they have been what's moved me to check this out. You have a strong case here, and I am going to do some earnest seeking on the matter starting today. This is going to get interestesting. If I change something so fundamental as what day Shabbos is kept, my husband is going to flip, lol. He may find it better, as his only days off are Sat. and Sunday, and I think that it bothers him that I am rather restricted on what I'll do on Sat with him. He takes it in stride pretty well, but I can tell he gets short with the idea at times. NOT that that will be a reason for me to seek and excuse to change the day, all that matters to me is YHWH's way. His way, not mine.

I, too, have been praying for answers. My biggest prayer, 'I want to KNOW You, I want to KNOW Who You are, I want to understand Your ways, and follow them, not mans'. SHOW me!!!!' I do believe this is one thing He's trying to help me understand.

Shalom.....