New Moon Sighting Affects Holiday Observances

[Trish]

Something that is new to me this year is learning about how the observances of some holidays depend on the sighting of the new moon. I am curious to learn more about this because there seem to be staunch supporters from both ends of the spectrum. Also, then, does the observance of Shabbat also depend upon the sighting of the new moon, counting every 7th day from the sighting (meaning it would sometimes fall upon a Tuesday according to the standard calender, or other day of the week)? This whole subject makes my mind swim! I've read up on both opposing POVs to some degree but that is only frustrating me more. Can anyone give me SCRIPTURAL backup for your reasons as to why you celebrate according to the rabbi's dates or according to the actual sighting of the new moon? Thanks!!!!

[Yochanan Chayil]

Matthew 16:19

"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and wh..."

like i said i think that for unities sake, going by the lunar calander makes no sense.... you see the new moon in australlia one - two days before you see it in Israel. if you go by the lunar then God's people become divided, not unified. same thing will all the feasts. we really are not keeping any of them because we are not in the land of the Promise. if we all were there then we all could keep it by the moon, green ears of....barley?... i think thats it, for counting the omer. we would all be Echad.... but because we are not in the same location then i think we ought to be echad in the best way possible.

Shalom

[Jody]

Shalom, NO OFFENSE intended here. Simply a couple of statements from someone who actually applies and lives by YHVH's Scriptural calendar. Firstly, there are many Scriptures which prove that during the time of Y'shuah and before, YHVH's people were keeping His calendar. All verses where a seventh day weekly Sabbath is actually mentioned, it falls on either the 8th, 15th, 22nd, or 29th of the given month. We loosely use the term Rosh Chodesh for all new moons, but actually that term is accurately applied to only one. The first one. And if one wanted to get real accurate, it applies to that entire month. But for the sake of understanding, we will use the term Rosh Chodesh to all new moons, every month. The first day of any given month is always Rosh Chodesh. It is the new moon day. Described in Scriptures as having extra sacrifices from the daily sacrifices, setting it apart from the regular work days. Then there are 6 work days, then the 7th day Sabbath. etc etc.
As far as the typical misunderstanding about the moon making a division. If someone who keeps the Julian (pagan) or Gregorian (papal) calendars 7th day (saturn's day) were to walk in oposite directions around the world, when they met, one would be keeping one day, and the other would be keeping another day due to the international date line. So using that same premise, keeping the calendrical day causes division.
But I do not wish to get too deeply into this discussion because it is a very emotional topic, and most are not ready to receive this light. Suffice to say, it takes a clean heart, a mind without any preconceived ideas and very lengthy study and prayer. All one really need do is study the current calendar to see that originally when that calendar was established, Sun was the 7th day.... So what do you do with that?? Shalom and blessing to all

[Mary]

Hi Jody,

I am really trying to get an understanding of the lunar sabbath. I have no problem with the feasts being determined by the new moon. It is the possibility of extra days at the end of the month that have been stumbling blocks for me because I have always understood the sabbath as being the seventh day, period, with no extra days tacked on the end of a month.. Could you give the specific verses that refer to actual dates of the sabbaths from scriptures? That would greatly help me to understand.

Shalom,

Mary in WY

[Jody]

Shalom, And for anyone who may wish to know:

On Sunday December 28, 2008 the new moon was not sighted from Israel
despite clear weather conditions. New moon day will begin tomorrow
night, Monday December 29, 2008.

On Monday December 29, 2008 the moon was sighted from Ein Gedi at
16:55 by Ryan Lawrence. The moon was not sighted from Jerusalem due to
clouds.

Hodesh Mevurach!
Blessed New Moon!

[Dinah]

shalom chavarim,

wow, what everyone is saying is so very interesting...it seems some celebrate it differently than others...I have also been reading Eliyahu Ben David's book Holy Time for the 2nd time...it is very good & helps with understanding...& still learning:)

Just wondering how those of you who celebrate differently reconcile a few issues...since G-d's word is truth & Yeshua said you would know the truth & the truth would set you free - let's hold his word as our standard - so if you can show me from scripture I would REALLY appreciate it as a fellow talmadim of Yeshua searching for the truth to be set free from the world's way of thinking...

1. The first day of the month cannot be the Rosh Codesh shabbat since Ezra was a priest & kept Torah & didn't break Shabbat - traveled on the 1st day of the months!!! (Ezra 7:10) So the 1st day of the month (new moon sighting) is day 1 & shabbat is 7,14, 21,28 ...how do those who keep the 8, 15, etc. reconcile that?

2. If ( & it seems to be) Ancient Israel's way of time setting was from moon dominence to moon dominence, ie. the day starting at the sighting of the moon & ending at the sighting of the moon the following day then it would make for one very long Shabbat at the end of the month (28, 29,30)& for that to be the "Rosh Codesh" days that david & jonathan were talking about 1 Sam,.20:18- waiting for the new moon...Would that be the long shabbat talked about at the end of the month, is there other scripture support?

3. If this is all true...may Yeshua inscribe it in our hearts & minds to follow him...& transform our minds to test that which is pure& right

Bretheren (&sisters:) Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind...

b'shem Yeshua,
Dinah

[Shalom2Uall]

Hi everyone, I am Rebecca & new to this website. Shalom & thanks to my good friend Dinah for introducing this web site to me. Shalom to Dawn also from Tsiyon. Shalom to Paul from Inspiredfaith Glad I can I finally comment now.

Thank U Dinah for posting these comments and questions
. The first day of the month cannot be the Rosh Codesh shabbat since Ezra was a priest & kept Torah & didn't break Shabbat - traveled on the 1st day of the months!!! (Ezra 7:10) So the 1st day of the month (new moon sighting) is day 1 & shabbat is 7,14, 21,28 ...how do those who keep the 8, 15, etc. reconcile that?

I am also new to the Lunar Sabbath. I did tremendous amount of research to find out whether or not it is true concerning the Lunar Sabbath. I first heard about Lunar Sabbath for the first time, just before the Feast of Trumpets(2008) and then did tons of research after that b/c I strongly sensed it was true. May I recommend an excellent book called "Holy Time" by Eliyahu Ben David from the website called Tsiyon, (to help U understand Yahweh's Scriptural Calender) I also read a lot of Scriptures & a bunch of articles, & references,including Universal Jewish Encylopedia & other Jewish Encylopedias on the history about how it went from Lunar Sabbath to Saturday Sabbath. All my readings including the Scriptures, well, It check out to be true, that is Lunar Sabbath. I learned about the origins of the pagen wkdays & wknds we are so used to today, that wasn't around during Yeshua's time and it wasn't used either by Yeshua's and His discliples. I learned at one time we used to have 8 to 10 days a wk before it was changed by man again to 7 days a wk.(What we are using now) Saturday at one time was the first day of the wk. How the days of the wk were named after pagan Gods and so forth. I learned how it got switched from Lunar Sabbath to a fixed day of the wk(Saturday-presently) and one of the reasons for the switch was for economic convenience.

Anyways back to the concerns that Dinah raised. Scripture says that Ezra was obedient to the Torah, & it does says that he traveled on the first day of the month, I am sure with heavy loads(his belongings) b/c he traveled a lot to different cities and then on the 5th month I think it says the 5th month, he traveled back again on the first day of month. Well there are Scriptures that mention the forbiddence of travel and carrying large loads on the Sabbath. I am sure he had a lot of baggage to carry with him. Therefore, the first day of the month has to be a worked day and not the Sabbath. b/c traveling and carrying heavy loads are forbidding on the Sabbath, and Ezra was obedient to the Torah. This would place the wkly Sabbath on the 7th 14th, 21st & the 28th

How awesome our God is, to gives us extra rest at the end of the month. A new month and work day doesn't begin again until U see the sighting and reappearance of the new sliver crescent moon.

I am really amazed to learn more truths. However, this is a major adjustment of way of thinking and getting used to, I know I can with Yahweh's help, I am hoping to find a job that will allow me to keep the Lunar Sabbath, That is one of the challenge I am facing today.

Blessings to everyone, I hope to get to know all of you here.

Shalom2Uall
Rebecca

[Jody]

Shalom, I will be happy to provide some Scripture referrences, and give some explanations, to the best of my current understanding. We are all growing and learning, I receive new insight and light all the time. And sometimes I have to rethink what I "thought" I knew as truth. But YHVH is shedding His light all the time. The most important thing to keep in mind is that we all look "through" the preconceived ideas and paradyms of our current understandings and beliefs. And we need to be open to His truth, no matter if that shatters what we thought we knew. It will take some time to gather the info and I am working two jobs, from 0 dark thirty until late. So I will need to wait until Sabbath when I will have the time to sit down with pen and paper and take notes. Much of this is old studies I have done previously, and I am not one who writes all that down. I also DO NOT want this to become something which offends. It can be a controversial subject and many people feel threatened when this topic is discussed. So it would also be contingent upon the group and whether we can disuss it without getting hurt feelings. I hope we can.... It will also depend upon whether Robyn will allow it. I know some topics she feels are taboo. And it is her site.

[Dinah]

Thanks Jody:) I look forward to it...why is it so controversial????...honestly this is all so new to me - I never even heard about it until about 2 months ago!!!! I'm so thankful that the L-rd is teaching me such awesome new things!!

May the L-rd bless your week at work & give you times of refreshing & sweet time - his time - with HIM:) - until then Dinah

[YAHaloma]

EVERYTHING that can be debated is contreversial, unfortunately, especially in matters of Torah. I think the key problem here, though, is it's VERY important that we have the dates/times right, so we don't miss our appointments with Abba. I think that human desire to be right is what makes it so heated, though. Ultimately, it's our own decision and responsibility to do our best to understand, and go by that understanding. We can't impose anything upon another person, no matter how right we think we are.

I for one am still up in the air about the lunar sabbath, so am intersted to see the 'for' argument/supporting evidience, but so far, from what I have seen, it doesn't hold up to Torah, mainly with regards to the last few days of the month, being an 'extra long' Shabbat when the moon doesn't show. That said, I can't say I know Torah up, down, inside and out, nor ancient history for that matter, and am always interested in what others know, and see. Doesn't mean I will change my stance, based on new input, but I am always open to the possiblity that I don't have it right, and that I may need to adjust somethings.

Shalom all..... off to do Shabbat prep. Around here it takes TWO days to really get things in order, lol.

[Yochanan Chayil]

Ya know, our Messiah will return and it says that He will make things clear. i say that we all need to do our best to understand the purpose of the torah and its instruction to us and how we apply it in our lives today.

[Dinah]

Yes, I agree understanding the purpose of the tenach in our lives & how to be perfect as Yeshua is perfect will help us all to have our righteousness surpass the teachers of the law in Yeshua's day (See Matt. 5)...I would love to discuss this too...is there another board for to observe or not to observe torah? - dinah

[Trish]

I don't know if there is... ?? I do know that this can be difficult to fully do in the diaspora in this time and in our society, but I think the more we are able to apply to our lives, the more blessings we receive ... in my experience anyway :-D But we are all at hugely different places in our walk and in very different circumstances, and this is where attitudes of love and compassion and just helpfulness toward one another are SO important. And I agree, we can try sooo hard to do it all right, but there will still be things we miss that we may not even realize, and when Messiah returns, all things will be made clear! Yay!