New Moon Sighting Affects Holiday Observances

[Trish]

Something that is new to me this year is learning about how the observances of some holidays depend on the sighting of the new moon. I am curious to learn more about this because there seem to be staunch supporters from both ends of the spectrum. Also, then, does the observance of Shabbat also depend upon the sighting of the new moon, counting every 7th day from the sighting (meaning it would sometimes fall upon a Tuesday according to the standard calender, or other day of the week)? This whole subject makes my mind swim! I've read up on both opposing POVs to some degree but that is only frustrating me more. Can anyone give me SCRIPTURAL backup for your reasons as to why you celebrate according to the rabbi's dates or according to the actual sighting of the new moon? Thanks!!!!

[Jody]

Shalom Trish, I will not "go into" a long explanation. If you are truely interested, I could talk with you privately on a more personal level, and give you many Scriptures which hopefully would make this clearer. Suffice to say, the calendars we have now, both the (secular/modern/gregorian/pagan sun worship based) calendar which is most commonly used in our society, as well as the Rabbinic (which takes YHVH's moedim/Feast dates and simply superimposes or "mixes" them over the top of the sun-based calendar) calendar are equally inaccurate. It is clear in Scripture that the month begins anew with the renewal of YHVH's signs in the heavens. The moon was given to be the cyclic base for the monthly cycle. Personally IMHO we should not "mix" the profane (sun worship based/man ordered) with the holy/set-apart (YHVH's signs in the heavens).
Yes, there are many, myself included who feel the importance of depending upon YHVH daily, and not to change or alter HIs reconning of times. But there are many others, the majority, who feel it is unimportant to remain set-apart from the nations. There is so much compromise. But this is a very heated and emotional topic to discuss in open forum. Too many are not able to "throw out" the tradtions they have inherited. They are afraid to move out of their comfort zones. It requires a dedication and life changing sacrifice to accept that what we have been taught, and that some of our foundational understandings may be in error. I am not judging, I have been in those shoes. It is very difficult to swim against the mainstream. Blessings to you in your studies. May you find what you are looking for. And if you would like some assistance with Scriptures to clarify, please feel free to contact me directly. Shalom

[Trish]

I would love that, Jody!

[Jody]

HALLELU'YAH Brenda. It appears to me by what you have said that you too neither follow the gregorian calendar nor do you adhere to the rabbinic calendar. Can I suppose that you follow the Biblical calendar?? I too follow the Almighty's instructions for His timekeeping and do not follow the "man-dating" used my the majority. I find there are more and more of us as the time grows shorter. Feel free to "talk" anytime.

[Jody]

Shalom, Yesterday 10/30 was the 30th day of the 7th month according to YHVH's Biblical calendar. (IMHO) as I understand it. Today/tonight we will be watching and waiting for our Creator to reveal His timing to us as to whether the next month begins. It is all in His timing! So yesterday and today is the renewal time for the upcoming month (moon). We will simply watch and wait on Him.

[Jody]

Shalom, For any who may be interested, the new moon of the 8th month was sighted in Y'rushalyim. Here are two reports: The first is from Karaite korner and the second is from Micha'el Rood.

On Friday October 31, 2008 the new moon was easily visible from
Israel. I first sighted the moon from Jerusalem at 5:01 pm.

Last night (Thursday Oct 30) visibility was uncertain. In most months
visibility can be predicted (assuming no clouds) by comparing the
astronomical data of the month in question with that of previous
sightings. However, in a minority of months visibility simply cannot
be predicted with any certainty nor can it be entirely ruled out. In
such instances we go based on raw 30th-day sighting which means we
look for the moon on the evening that begins the 30th day. If the moon
is sighted then the "30th day" becomes the 1st day of the new month.
If the moon is not sighted then the new month begins the following
evening. This month visibility could not be predicted on the evening
that began the 30th day (Thursday evening). Because the moon was not
sighted on Thursday evening, Friday evening automatically became the
beginning of the new month.


This is Michael Rood reporting in from the land of Israel with the New Moon Report for the eighth month of the year.

Arriving home in the Galilee on Thursday under a heavy overcast sky that brings the fall rains to Israel, it was easy to demonstrate the need to have observers in the homeland who would watch the western horizon for the first sliver of the Renewed Moon each month. Under ideal conditions, we would have seen the 8th moon of the year low on the horizon at the setting of the sun on Thursday - and the 7th month would have been a 29 day month. But it was obvious to even the most casual observer that if the sun could not be seen on the horizon for the storm clouds boiling over the Mediterranean Sea, it would be even more impossible to see the sun's reflected fire from the faint sliver of the moon potentially observable from the earth. The 7th month would be, by default, a 30 day month

[Sombra]

I agree in theory, but I don't practice the Agricultural/Astronomical calendar.. I agree that when God says no man knows the day or the hour - this is directly in reference to following the Agricultural/Astronomical calendar. The very fact that I follow the Rabbinic calendar and it's preprinted what day Yom Kippur is... this isn't what God meant.. however..

May I ask - how do you follow this calendar in the diaspora - if you do not have access to the internet or other such technologies? If I'm looking to know when The First Month is in a given year, how do I know if the barley is ripe in the the Holy Land if I don't have access to this knowledge in the diaspora?.. so if I don't have this knowledge to know when the First Month is, how do I know when the Seventh month is..

I keep Rabbinic in order to keep unity with greater Israel, and I'm perfectly well aware that there is error in that train of thinking, but just like the wife whose husband is not yet ready to keep Sabbath, that woman must follow the lead of her husband, so too, i follow the lead of the elders of my congregation, and my elders follow the leadership of greater Israel.

I understand that when the Ethiopian Jews were seeking to enter Israel, one of the questions they were asked to prove their authenticity as Jews was.. What Parsha were they reading that week? How do we keep the same Parsha if we are following the Agricultura/Astronomical Calendar? How do we know if this year will be a leap year or not.. until we get to the end of that year. Do we read the Torah as if it's a 12 month year every year, and then if there is a 13th month we just re read the last 4 Parashot?

I have discussed this with my husband. If we were worshiping at home alone, we'd follow the Agri/Astro calendar.. but we would need to know how the Parashot issue works.. One day my husband well feel led to lead us here at home, but he's not ready for that yet,

[Trish]

Okay, so I wasn't understanding the origins of the rabbinic calendar at all, but I just finished reading a book today that cleared a lot of that up for me. From my research, the facts he gives are accurate. I'm still digging but I think the evidence is pointing to the the lunar calender being the first in existence and there has not been an "unbroken 7 day weekly cycle" as I have always understood it in the past. The book is called "Holy Times" by Eliyahu ben David, and I've got an electronic copy that I'm allowed to share as long as no alterations are made, if anyone is interested. Just e-mail me. It's great!

[Jody]

Shalom Trish, "the the lunar calender being the first in existence and there has not been an "unbroken 7 day weekly cycle" as I have always understood it in the past." OMEIN
I would like that link. Not that I am looking but I would love to see what he has to say. My dh and I have been keeping YHVH's creation calendar for a long time.

[Jody]

Shalom Sombra, Sorry, no offence intended, but you can ALWAYS make excuses. It is a choice one makes. Every day, every hour. I pray you will be blessed in your search.

[Sombra]

You're right Jody, and we choose to remain in unity with our congregation. I'm not searching for another way.. i mean, i know there is another way, i just don't choose to follow it.. but I would like to know about the Parshas.

i'd also like to know that rabbinic calendar followers are not scorned here. there have been so many groups divided over the calendar issue. i want to know i'm welcome to participate in calendar discussions.

[Trish]

Everyone is welcome to participate in these discussions, of course! I have very much appreciated your contributions to the discussion, so please continue to do so as you feel led! Blessings and *HUGS*

I agree with you Sombra, sometimes a lot of this is MUCH easier to envision in theory than it is to live out in our daily lives. I, for one, do not have a congregation at all to be a part of that even keeps the feasts, and my husband will not participate at all, let alone completely changing the calendar by which we run our lives. So, we three (my kids and I) do what we can. We were told by our former rabbi not to bother trying and to go back home. So very UNencouraging. Then we're chastised by others for not doing enough. Yet more discouragement. So that has left us right where we began in the first place...at simply doing what we can--no more and no less. As much as I would LOVE to do so much more, without a Torah community to function in, it simply does not work because Torah was created with whole communities in mind. And even when one does have a Torah community to function in, it serves no good purpose to create disunity. We can only move forward when it is the will of YHVH. In the meantime, we learn and apply what we can. We know that when our Savior returns, all this struggle will finally be put to rest and in the meantime, we must work within the situations we're placed in, and we must do that with all joy and perserverance. Shalom, may His will be done!

[Jody]

Shalom Sombra, Certainly you are welcome!! Everyone is welcome to discuss these issues. We are all going in the same direction, (hopefully) but we are all at different places on that path! It has taken many years of study, and many sacrifices to my daily life, to arrive where my dh and I are on this path. It is certainly not for everyone. Just as there are many parts to the body. I would hope yu would continue to disuss with us and we would learn from your insights. My dh and I fellowship at Feast times, and have just started a gathering for the new moons. We all gather together but are definitely not all at the same place in our walk. Blessings to you and yours.